Through Fiery Trials
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Welcome to Halting Toward Zion, the podcast where we limp like Jacob to the Promised Land and talk about life, the universe, and everything along the way. I’m Emily Maxson here with Greg Uttinger.
We have just done some math because we wanted to find out how tall Nebuchadnezzar’s statue was that he set up in Daniel 3. How tall did we decide it was?
The text says 3 square cubits, 60 x 1.5 feet, so that’s 90 feet tall, and it’s 6 cubits wide so that’s 9 feet wide. I think the surprising thing for most people, and it was for me the first time I actually paid attention to the numbers, is this is not a humanoid figure. This is tall and skinny.
Probably not, no. It’s more like an obelisk. When we were talking about this before we started recording you mentioned the Washington Monument. How tall is it again?
So there you have a comparison. This was tall and impressive, covered in gold, probably not solid gold because that would be an awful lot of gold. I’m not sure if there is that much gold around. But it was bright and shiny and Nebuchadnezzar set it up in the plain of Dura, someplace in the province of Babylon. Then this is what the text says –
Then Nebuchadnezzar the king sent to gather together the princes, the governors, and the captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counsellers, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, to come to the dedication of the image which Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up. Then the princes, the governors, and captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counsellers, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, were gathered together unto the dedication of the image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up, and they stood before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up.
Yes. More than one real commentator has said, “This is sheer mockery. This is on the level of ‘This is the house that Jack built.’” It’s the same lengthy set of nouns over and over again with that popular refrain, “…that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.” I know when I read this out loud at any length to my students, at some point they start laughing because it’s just so silly. It’s not that God is silly or the Bible is silly, but God is mocking this whole thing because they’re making such a big deal out of it.
We can remember back to the original Tower of Babel where God also mocked them in good detail. “Oh, they’re building something that reaches to heaven? Let’s go down and see if we can even see whatever that thing is.”
Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages, that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up. And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.
Therefore, at that time when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of musick, all the people, the nations, and the languages, fell down and worshipped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.
So context within the flow of the book of Daniel. In the previous chapter Nebuchadnezzar had had this dream of a great image, terrible, huge, humanoid in shape, which perhaps has led some artists, and particularly those who do children’s Bible storybooks I think, to portray it as an image of gold – that is, a human image – but it’s not. The proportions are completely wrong. As you suggested before we started, a totem pole perhaps, or something with a small image on them.
We’re not told and it doesn’t matter obviously, or God would have given us more detail, but there is a connection to the previous chapter. That is in the original dream and then the vision as Daniel saw it, the head of gold represented Babylon and particularly Nebuchadnezzar.
So Nebuchadnezzar knows that Babylon is not the be-all and end-all of human history, but he does latch onto one thing – “I’m the head of gold. It all starts with me, and from here it goes downhill. I am the clearest manifestation of God in history. People ought to acknowledge that. God went to all the trouble to point this out to me, and now I need to point it out to everybody.”
Within the context of that culture, if God manifests himself in some person or thing, then God is identified with that person or thing – again, continuity of being theology. All being is one. Everything is divine. Some things are just a little more divine than others, back to the old Cream of Wheat or oatmeal analogy.
“And it is right that people recognize this and give me the honor due to my unique place in history. It is sad [he probably thought] that things go downhill from here, but there’s nothing strange about that.”
Earlier, Hesiod would describe human history in terms of a flow from a golden age to a silver age to a bronze age to an iron age, so the language had some currency even now, and the recognition that things rise out of chaos into a glorious beginning and then descend cyclically back down into chaos, that was all familiar territory.
The news was, “Hey, we’re at the peak! I’m it. I’m golden, literally. I am the manifestation of God on earth right now and people need to acknowledge that if we’re going to get on with this great social engineering problem called the Neo-Babylonian empire or Chaldean empire.”
In that culture you did so by bowing down to images and maybe offering sacrifices or incense to them, but you start with prostrating yourself before the image which incarnates the glory or reality that is God. So probably in Nebuchadnezzar’s mind he’s just going, “God led me thus far; obviously, this is the thing you do next.” He’s probably wholly justified in his mind and he’s working off of a divinely-given dream. “What more do you need? God almost told me to do it, so people need to get on board with this.”
Oddly enough, everybody gets on board with this because the word goes out that if you don’t, you’re going to be thrown into a burning fiery furnace, not that the people probably would have objected anyway. They were used to bowing down to all kinds of things because this is a polytheistic culture. God is manifest in many ways and many means and many objects, many kinds of talismans, idols, and images, so bowing down to one more is no big deal, but Nebuchadnezzar wants to punctuate it.
“This is really, really important, so everyone has to be on board here because God is manifested in the emperor, in the empire, in this political arrangement, and you all have to recognize that because we can’t go forward the way we’re supposed to if you don’t. We don’t need any compromisers, Quislings, or Judases. We need complete loyalty from everybody. Everybody must swear allegiance to the State and then manifest it by bowing down to this image.”
He has a whole orchestra just to make it more spectacular and interesting and get people involved, apparently. So the music plays and everyone bows down – all across the field, all across the plain, everybody is doing the wave, except here the wave is to kneel before this image.
But somewhere somehow – you know how it is when the child comes to you after class and says, “Teacher, did you know that Bobby had his eyes open during prayer?”
Yes, exactly. There were some people in that audience who noticed that there were some people not bowing. The people who did the noticing were probably Chaldean by extraction, locals, natives, people who should have been in line for high positions in the Babylonian government and probably had some kind of position, because this was a meeting of the officials of the empire. The people who were not bowing were three Hebrews. Their Babylonian names were Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
If you recall, those were not their Hebrew names. Their Hebrew names were Mishael, Hananiah, and Azariah, but no one knew them as that anymore. Their names had been changed. They were part of the system. They dressed like Babylonians, they talked like Babylonians, they went to Babylonian classes, they graduated from Babylon U, they worked for the Babylonian civil service, and yet, you know, it was just that itchy thing of, “but they’re Hebrews and they’re ahead of me.” It’s called envy or greed or covetousness.
Envy is a little different in that envy says, “I don’t necessarily want that position, but it really burns me that he has it.” So they see these guys and they decide, “There we go. We’ve got them. They’re so far out of line. The king has made such a big deal out of this. We know they’re teacher’s pets and all that, but they’re not going to get away with this,” and so the text continues.
Wherefore at that time certain Chaldeans came near, and accused the Jews. They spake and said to the king Nebuchadnezzar, O king, live for ever. Thou, O king, hast made a decree, that every man that shall hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, shall fall down and worship the golden image: And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth, that he should be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.
There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego; these men, O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy gods [which is not exactly relevant here, but they throw it in just on top of things], nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
These are the tattlers. They pretend this is out of loyalty to the king and his cause and the political movement and all that, but their motives are purely personal. They want these guys out of the way.
There’s nothing worse than a man who’s committed to his religion of self-righteousness, because if you’ve crossed him you’ve crossed God himself, and he is now fully justified in whatever anger and vengeance he displays. So Nebuchadnezzar is really ticked off. He commanded them to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and they brought them in to the king.
Nebuchadnezzar spake and said unto them, Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, do not ye serve my gods, nor worship the golden image which I have set up?
Again, the gods thing has not been an issue. No one has ever told them, as far as we know, that they have to worship the Babylonian gods, but right now it just shows bad taste. It’s like walking into a formal ball in your beachwear. You’re not fitting in. You’re obviously slighting the whole audience and it’s just something that comes up here. But more to the point, “…nor worship the golden image which I have set up?”
Now he’s going to be magnanimous and generous. He’s cooled down enough to offer them a second chance.
Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made, well. But if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace, and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful [full of care or anxious] to answer thee in this matter.
It doesn’t mean that they don’t care about their lives or that they’re going to speak thoughtlessly. It’s just, “This is not a worry to us. We already know what we’re doing, so we’re going from there.”
If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
Again, we’re in the position where they have not been told God is going to work a miracle. They are strictly speaking not prophets, in that the last thing that was revealed was revealed to Daniel. The miracle was done on their behalf but they didn’t do the miracle, so they don’t have any kind of divine revelation that says, “Go put your life on the line because nothing’s going to happen. God is going to step in and deliver you.”
They may have a sense that God has used them so far and that, having used them, maybe he’s not done yet, but that’s not the point. Yes, God can and we may even have a sneaking suspicion that he’s planning something here because this is a huge confrontation.
Again, they can look back to the whole story of Joseph. When Joseph interpreted the dream of the king, the king got on board and converted. Here Nebuchadnezzar completely misunderstands the message and is running in the wrong direction, and they may deduce amongst themselves, “God’s not done here. Why would God tell him all this?”
Just as God had a great big showdown with the Egyptian gods, something might be coming.
“Something might be coming here, so maybe God’s not done with us.” Everyone at this point usually asks, “Where’s Daniel?” We don’t know. We’re not told. Obviously, he didn’t bow down. He may have been off on an embassage or managing affairs back in the city proper. Someone had to be in charge while everybody else is out here.
Maybe he found himself a job where nobody would be seeing him at this particular time.
We don’t know and it doesn’t matter. And no, it’s not a figure of the rapture where Daniel vanishes but others are left behind. I’ve heard that before. When you start believing in such things you start finding them every place. The same thing with the lions and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego are gone but Daniel is left behind. That’s not serious – people, please, no.
But these guys couldn’t. He’s at a higher level than they are and he could not apparently rescue them. He couldn’t intervene, because if he could have he would have. He’s that kind of guy, so they’re on their own, except they’re not, and that’s the whole point. God is on their side. And where they may have some kind of sneaking suspicion that God is about to do something, they don’t know. They don’t have an infallible prophetic guarantee, so it is quite possible that what God has planned is their martyrdom here and now, and that he’s going to glorify himself that way.
So they say, “Our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king, if that’s his plan. If he wants to deliver us, he’s delivering us and there’s nothing you can do to stop it. He’s sovereign, you’re not.”
But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
Since the whole issue of the gods has been dragged in, they’re acknowledging it. “You keep making this point. It’s not been an issue. We’re going to make it an issue because when this is done, if we’re still alive we’re still not worshiping your gods. It’s not that we’re going to defy idolatry one idol at a time. ‘How about this one?’ ‘No.’ ‘But you could bow to this one.’ ‘No.’ ‘How about this one over here?’ ‘No.’” They’re just flat-out, “Look, let’s settle this once and for all – not this image, not your gods, none of it. We are rejecting the whole of Babylonian idolatry. That’s just it. We’re not going to do it.”
Now to some this would sound like sheer arrogance. “The man is asking you to get down on your knees and do a salaam or two in the direction of this thing. What’s the big deal? Because he’s going to kill you and it’s going to hurt. It’s going to be nasty and people are going to see that this is what happens to people who defy idolatry. How is that going to be helpful? Can’t you just go along to get along? Bow down and tie your shoe or something.”
Exactly. “Is it really that big a deal? I mean as long as you don’t believe in those idols in your heart, does what your body does really matter?” Hmm. Gnostic bell.
Yeah. “As long as my intentions are good, as long as my theology is good, as long as my commitments are right, as long as there’s love in my heart, does it really matter what I do externally, what religious images I put forward, what symbols I carry around, what memes I put up on my social media account? Does any of that really matter as long as my heart is right?”
These men knew the law of God very well. It’s not so much that they knew it really well, it’s that we know it so poorly. I don’t know what the statistics are, but the number of Christians and people who go to church regularly who know the ten commandments is desperately low. Most American Christians cannot tell you what the ten commandments are, let alone in order, let alone recite them. It’s very sad that we are so ignorant of what God requires.
Then there are those who, also not knowing the law, who will object to the idea of law. “We serve because of the promptings of the Spirit. We don’t need a book telling us what to do.”
“So which commandment exactly are you having trouble with? Is it the one about adultery?”
“Oh, you want to kill somebody? You want to knock off your boss because he’s…”
“You keep talking about law and how bad law is. Do you even know what these laws command?”
“Well, I’m in favor of them all generally, just that God shouldn’t tell us to do these things.”
I’m reminded of a scene from the Jane Austen movie, Love and Friendship. There’s this sort of country bumpkin, but of course this is Jane Austen so he’s landed gentry, but he doesn’t know as he calls them “the 12 commandments.” Somebody says, “You know, there are only 10,” and he goes, “Oh, that’s great news! Which two shall we do away with?” Then he starts going, “But many of these things we wouldn’t do anyway because they are wrong.”
It's sad but it’s funny, and it’s funny because it’s true that we don’t know what they are. But we’re supposed to be a Christian civilization, and here we are thinking, “Oh no, but I wouldn’t do those things, not because God told me not to but because they’re wrong.”
Yes. “There’s some kind of absolute that stands outside of the universe that even God must consult. We don’t want God bossing us around, and God, since he became a Christian and all, doesn’t try to boss us around. He puts his Spirit in us and moves us in ways that are kind and loving. It’s not that we want to break any of these commandments exactly, but we just don’t like it when people tell us that we need to not do these things.”
“We don’t need a book.” Well, God kinda thought we did. That’s why he gave us one.
Yes, God did. The first two commandments, if anyone does not know, are “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” Before me means where I can see them, before my face, before my presence. Since God is everywhere, no gods, no rival authorities, no other ultimate concerns except God himself, where God can see them, which is anywhere at all. So that’s the first commandment. That which commands your life, your loyalty, your commitments in all areas of thought and life – that must be Jehovah and his word.
The second commandment is, “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image [that means an idol; it’s a technical term with a very specific meaning] or any likeness of anything that’s in heaven above the earth or beneath the waters under the earth.” Don’t make idols of anything, of any kind of shape, whatever you can imagine, whatever you’ve seen. Don’t try to equate something and say, “God looks like this.”
Secondly, “Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them nor serve them.” Those are two separate things, but they’re bound up together. In other words, if I say, “Well, I’m going to make this picture of God, but I’m not myself going to bow down to it. I’ll just put it over here in a corner because it’s going to look really cool.”
“Well, no. I’ll make sure they don’t. I’ll save it for special people who can appreciate fine art.”
God is not like any other thing. Yes, he is like everything that he has made, and he is not like anything he has made. Everything bears witness to him. Everything reveals him. The heavens declare the glory of God. The invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power. Yes, everything testifies to God, but God is not exactly like any of them.
God is not a cow. He is not a giraffe. He is not the sun. He is not the Milky Way. He is not the planet Earth. He is not a human king. There is nothing we could make that exhausts who and what God is, and when we make a statue or image or painting and say, “Well, this is God,” we are now lying about God. We are misrepresenting him. We’re not telling the truth about him. We’re telling an untruth about him – that is, we are lying about who God is.
You may remember God’s words to Job’s friends at the end of the book of Job.
My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
God does not like to be misrepresented. He wants us to tell the truth. He is truth. He expects us to bear witness to that truth and not to make up our own stuff because it’s cool or beautiful or shows off my talent or whatever.
“Well, no one will ever get bad ideas because I’ll put it in a book and just bring it out.”
No, you won’t because now you’re coveting and now you’re obsessing and now you’re putting your little art project ahead of God’s clear words. God does not want you, even to yourself, making physical or even mental images of what God might look like, because he doesn’t look like anything. He’s intangible and invisible, and anything that you come up with again is going to misrepresent God not only to others but to you yourself. You’re going to start thinking that God is like this created thing, so that’s that.
Then secondly, once these things are made, whether you made it or someone else made it, they’ll worship it. They’ll bow down to it for exactly the same reason. God is not in anything that he has made. Nothing exhausts his reality. Yes, he’s present everywhere. He’s imminent. All of God is with us anywhere we turn, but he is not his creation.
Dr. Rudolph from Episcopal Seminary had a saying. “He is not it and it is not he.” He’d draw a big circle. “This is God.” Then he’d draw a little circle and that’s creation. He’d point to the first circle, “God. He is not it [pointing to creation] and it [pointing to creation] is not he.” Then he would show the covenantal link between the two, but no crossing of boundaries. No continuity of being. No continuity of essence.
Dr. Rudolph had another line that I like. “God makes ducks, but God does not quack,” by which he simply meant God makes his creation but does not thereby become his creation. He makes ducks, but that doesn’t reduce him to the level of a duck. God makes the sun, but he is not therefore the sun. God made the earth, but he is not the earth. When we try to make things and say, “This is my contact point with God. God is in this, or reaches out through this in a special way,” then we’re violating the second commandment.
I’ve used the example with my students. I’ll pull out a cell phone, which I actually do have now, and I turn to my students and say, “What if it rang and I picked it up and answered and said ‘Hello?’ and then turned to you and said ‘It’s your mom’ and I’m holding out the cell phone.”
Exactly. But we all know what it means. We mean that this thing has now become an insta-connect to mom, wherever she may be. That voice that we hear? It’s coming from your mom. Yes, it’s been changed through electric signals and electronic particles and by air vibrations. It’s not the original breath your mom breathed, but it’s a good representation. And if you disobey her, she’s going to find out and you’re going to be in a lot of trouble.
So for all practical purposes at that moment, that cell phone is acting like mom and you better treat it as such. If you flip the cellphone a finger or something, mom is going to know and mom is going to deal with you. You cannot trash the phone when your mom is on the line and think that mom doesn’t care.
They understood that the wooden thing that they made was not the power that they were trying to get on the good side of. They understood it was a representation.
Yeah, it’s a representation and a hyperlink, but that doesn’t mean you don’t show the proper respect, and the proper respect was bowing, offering incense, bringing sacrifices, maybe even your first-born child. It was that simple.
So this is what’s being held before these three Hebrew young men, who by now were probably 21 or 22, something like that. They’re probably still in their early 20s. They can acknowledge that there is something in this world more important than them serving the Lord their God, and they can acknowledge that whatever gods there be, whether it be their own God or another god, has manifested himself to such a degree, has identified himself so clearly with this one particular object that they can bow to it and thereby show him honor. And he not only will not be displeased, he will actually be pleased because the connection is that close.
If you say to the cell phone, “Yes mom, I’ll do that,” mom on the other end is pleased, not because you’ve honored the cell phone but because through the cell phone you’ve honored her. So God or the gods, if you understand them right, they look and see how you treat these hyperlinks to divinity, and if you do the right thing somehow they receive the nourishment, the power, however it works in their particular system of thought.
So at the very least, these two commandments are on the line, and the young men say, “No. God may deliver us. He has the power. He may not. It doesn’t matter. We’re not bowing down to this or any other creature.”
The one exception, of course, would be human beings because man is the image of God, and if you bow down to a man as a man, and we have numerous examples of the patriarchs for example doing exactly that, that’s simply showing respect for what is the image of God, human nature. But to bow down and offer incense and make sacrifices and to call another human being Lord and Savior, no, that’s right out. That’s violating the first commandment, treating something else as if it is truly God and sovereign.
Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Therefore he spake and commanded that they should heat the furnace one seven times more than it was wont to be heated. And he commanded the most mighty men that were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and to cast them into the burning fiery furnace.
Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
If you listen to those words, something already is a little odd. The fire is so hot it consumes the soldiers who tried to throw them into the fire, so they’re running around burning to death or taken in a moment. Meshach, Shadrach, and Abednego fall down, bound, so the fire, as hot as it is, has not instantly consumed their clothes in which they were bound. It hasn’t instantly consumed them.
Well, while everybody is watching – at some distance, we would think, because it’s really, really hot –
Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste and spake and said unto his counsellers, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
Apparently, the fire did not consume them, but somebody undid their bindings for them and then helped them up and they put their clothes on. As Nebuchadnezzar is seeing this and watching, they’re getting dressed and adjusting their hats and everything, and he sees this and is absolutely astonished.
“We only put in three, right? It’s not early dementia, is it? Where’d this fourth guy come from? And who and what is he?”
The fourth, the King James says, is like the Son of God. Commentators since probably the mid-1800s have picked at that and said Nebuchadnezzar is not a Hebrew or a Christian. He does not have a conception of God having a son. Even the Hebrews were not terribly clear on that. They did use the phrase “Son of God” sometimes for angels, but even that was not a common usage.
The plea is, “Nebuchadnezzar was a pagan. He’s a Babylonian. What he probably said was a son of the gods – that is, a demi-god, a hero, some human form that has elements of deity about him.”
That’s probably true as far as it goes. Nebuchadnezzar had not studied the theology of Nicaea or any such thing. He had not read Berkhof’s Manual of Christian Doctrine, let alone Calvin’s Institutes or the writings of Athanasius or Augustine. He did not know about all of that, but the God who ordains all things had ordained that he would say particular words, and ordained the Holy Spirit would inscripture those particular words, knowing full well what those words would mean in about 500 years, so I think we’re absolutely justified in translating them as they are here.
Whatever Nebuchadnezzar meant, God is communicating to us that yes, the fourth person there was the Son of God. It’s Jesus as a Christophany or theophany appearing in a pre-incarnation revelation. In other words, it’s the Son of God looking as if he’s human for the moment, the Angel of the Lord appearing, and notice what he does and what he doesn’t do.
He obviously is preserving them because they’re not running around screaming about how hot it is. They’re not burning. They’re not being consumed. I really appreciate your reference to the burning bush earlier because I think that’s exactly what we should be thinking of. The flame is burning and yet it’s not consuming them. Would it consume someone else? Absolutely. It consumed the guards who tried to throw them in here in the first place. The problem is not the fire. God is upholding them.
Yes, and about the men that God allowed to come there. So God himself in the person of his Son has joined with them and is preserving them and keeping the flame from hurting them, but he also is not leading them out. He’s staying with them, and that’s the third thing. He’s staying with them. They’re in this fire and yet it doesn’t touch them and it doesn’t touch him, but he stays with them and he does not lead them out, yet.
With the echoes here we can think backwards and forwards. We can think backwards to the exodus. In Deuteronomy 4:20 God through Moses said,
But the LORD hath taken you and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.
Egypt was a fiery furnace. Now they’re in another pagan land, Babylon. They’ve gone back even further, back to where Abraham came out of. There again God’s people are in a fiery furnace. It’s a time of torment, a time of tribulation.
When thou passest through the waters I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee. When thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
The language is largely figurative, but that doesn’t mean it’s not absolutely literally real at certain times, and this is one of those times. God’s people are in Babylon, and specifically three of them are in this fiery furnace. Babylon is a fiery furnace, but here’s a real practical down-to-earth you can burn your hand on fiery furnace and God’s people are there.
What happens to God’s people when they go in a fiery furnace? Jesus is with them and Jesus preserves them, and one day Jesus leads them out, but here’s the other thing – Jesus is in the fiery furnace. He does not say, “Wow, that’s really hot. I’m going to stay out here. I’ll make sure you don’t hurt too much, but that’s a little uncomfortable.”
Exactly. And toward the end of the historical part of the book, Daniel is going to go into the lion’s den and the imagery is very similar, because Babylon is also compared in Daniel’s later prophecies to a lion. Well, God’s people are in the lion’s den and Daniel goes in there, but he’s not devoured, and God in time brings him out again.
And so with our Lord. Just as Israel went into captivity and is eventually restored to the land in the restoration, our Savior went into the fiery furnace of God’s wrath, of desolation, isolation, rejection, pain and suffering, and he came out again. He went in there for us and he comes out for us, so now when we go through such things we know he’s been there and done that, and we have that absolute comfort that he is with us. Before he left the earth, some of his last words were, “I am with you always.”
Yes. So that’s something of what’s going on here. It is more than just, “God stepped in and screwed up Nebuchadnezzar’s plans.” Yes, he did. It’s a little more than, “God doesn’t like the power state and world empires and new world order.” No, he really doesn’t, as a matter of fact, and tends to poke fun at them and puncture them whenever he can, but that doesn’t mean that sometimes his people don’t have to suffer in the midst of such nonsense, and sometimes for quite a while.
Again, Jesus did not bring these three men out immediately. Daniel didn’t bounce back out of the lion’s den the moment he was thrown in. Sometimes we are there for a while, and yet Jesus promises to be with us and to sustain us and promises us, “This is part of the plan, so don’t worry about it. It’s okay. I’ve got you covered.”
This reminds me of Paul in jail when he’s been publicly humiliated and been cast into jail, and then they find out that they can’t really keep him in jail because he’s a Roman citizen. He says, “Well, you threw me in here publicly, so you come and get me out. I’m not coming.”
It reminds me of that because Paul is imprisoned in the same way Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah are imprisoned in a safe place. The furnace is the safest place in the world if you’re with Jesus and Jesus is there. So I feel like if I were one of those three people I would like to think that I’d be like, “Yo, come and get me!”
That’s a wonderful observation because you’re right, there’s a good deal of similarity. They don’t leave until Nebuchadnezzar calls them out, because you know what? Nebuchadnezzar is still the emperor and he told them to go in there. “Okay boss, we’re here. Now what?”
Nebuchadnezzar gets that he’s been overruled, that heaven has somehow intervened. That does not mean that he knows who exactly Jesus is, but he knows that someone who represents the God of the Hebrews has just intervened in a big way that he can’t trump, so he says this –
… and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the Most High God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire.
And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellers, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was a hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.
There was no evidence that they had ever been in the fire. They are dressed right now, though.
Then Nebuchadnezzar spake and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel [his messenger] and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.
Okay, you have properly analyzed the situation, and that’s to his credit because not everybody would. There are people that would say, “Well, that didn’t work. Try spears.” But here’s the king of the world and he realizes, “I’m out-gunned here and it would be wisdom not to push it. I got into this thinking I was doing the will of this God of heaven person, and he just said no to me, so let’s put the pride down just a notch and let’s work the system.”
I’m thinking here of Jeroboam when he is confronted by the prophet who breaks his altar by prophetic voice, and he reaches out his hands and says, “Seize him!” and his hand shrivels up. He immediately turns back and says, “Umm, don’t seize him. Hey bud, come here. Would you mind healing me, please? Thanks so much. And now why don’t you come back with me and I’ll give you a honorary testimonial dinner or something, and give you rewards and all that,” and the prophet says no to the whole attempt to co-op.
This is neither that nor the other. It’s not, “Well, okay, that didn’t work. Run a sword through him,” nor is it, “Oh, you’re our good luck charms,” but neither is it true conversion because that waits for the next chapter. But what he says is significant. He says this -
Therefore I make a decree that every people, nation, and language which speak anything amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill, because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort
So he realizes that this God is different. Now, has he assumed a full creationist theology? Probably not, but things are beginning to get through to him. He knew that there was something special about this God from the previous chapter.
He’s now saying, “Don’t anybody say even a bad word about him. I don’t need that on my resume, so we’re going to honor this God. He is the Most High God. He’s higher than all other gods. He has power that no other god has.” He's still thinking about what that means and practically what that comes down to, and in the next chapter God is setting him up for conversion, but it hasn’t happened yet.
The king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego and the prophets of Babylon, so they get knocked up a few notches in authority, and I’m sure the people who originally tattled on them are probably thinking, “Oh no, they’re going to know. They’re going to remember. We’re in trouble. Maybe it’s time to seek a transfer to India or someplace.” So there’s the story.
The interesting thing about Daniel is that it is laid out in pre-set sections. Most of the Bible, if there are sections they’re literarily determined. They’re not hard and fast and you have to kind of think, “Okay, where are the themes and where are the main ideas and motifs coming in?”
There are a few that come in pre-set chapters. Psalms is obvious. Lamentations is another. Revelation to a lesser extent. John has its seven signs it’s built around, and so on.
The chapters of Daniel are very concise stories and there are 10 of them – 5 and 5 – and they parallel each other. This chapter corresponds to the 6th chapter where Daniel again is faced with, “Do I serve the king or do I serve God?” It’s the lion’s den story. Chapter 2 is parallel to 7 and the prophecies are very similar. Chapter 2 is the coming four kingdoms in terms of a human image. Daniel 7 is the coming four kingdoms in terms of great beasts that rise out of the ocean, and so on, and that’s another study.
What it means for this is that this is the third. The first one settles absolute priorities. Are you going to serve God or are you going to serve the king? The second is how is God revealing himself historically? And the third then is, “So what does this mean in terms of how I shall then live? What is the nature of my oath before God? I’m a Christian. I’ve been baptized. I’ve been marked with Jesus’ name. I come to the holy supper and renew my covenant with him on a yearly, monthly, or weekly basis. What does that mean for how I live and how I interact with society, how I interact with the government?”
Here’s a civil government. These men held posts within the civil government. This is a very wicked civil government. This is a government that was a war machine. It was out conquering peoples left and right. The bulk of the wealth that came into its coffers came from brutal conquests of people who had not particularly hurt Babylon. They were just there to be conquered.
This money came into the hands of Daniel and his friends. It’s blood money. What do you do with that? Do you say, “I can’t touch that. I can’t work for this government. This government is absolutely pagan. I have no place in it. I can’t be involved in it”? Or do you say, “God has put me here and I will do what I can do,” and then the other side is, “And will you do everything they ask you to do?”
Think of Obadiah who worked for Ahab. Somehow this godly man got to be Ahab’s second in command, his right-hand man. Meanwhile in the background he was hiding prophets at Jezebel’s expense in caves to keep them from martyrdom, so a great guy, a great administrator. Ahab no doubt thought he was very faithful and very useful, and there he is walking that tightrope, and here these men are also walking the tightrope.
They are government officials, and if any of you have family or friends who tell you, “I have nothing to do with the United States government. It is evil and wicked and I won’t work for it, won’t work under it, won’t obey it, won’t acknowledge its existence. I am, oh, I don’t know, a sovereign citizen,” like people are citizens of Atlantis or something – there’s nothing biblical there.
These men had been taken by force out of God’s land, from God’s people, from their godly families, placed in a pagan environment, and given a pagan education by force. I mean the Babylonians were nice about it, but these men had no choice but to do what they were told.
But now there comes a point where the line is drawn. Will you bow down and say that this government beyond question can make any law it wants and can demand your absolute obedience? Will you swear that Caesar is lord or will you stand back and say, “No. Before you do that you have to kill me, and I’ll stand right here while you do it, and I will bear witness to the truth.”
We don’t know to what degree they bore testimony before Nebuchadnezzar before. It was probably not a lot. They didn’t have that many opportunities. Daniel had, with the whole interpreting the dream thing, but God had to provide that opportunity.
It’s not necessarily our job to go up to our pagan employees in the government every week and say, “Hey, let me tell you what Jesus is doing in my life now.” If you can, go for it. Generally you’re going to be told, “Just shut up and get back to work,” but when God provides the opportunity these men are not shy. They are not afraid, not embarrassed to be named followers of Jehovah. They tell the truth, and though it may cost them their lives, they stand there boldly and take it.
And when they’re told, “Go into the fiery furnace” they walk in, and they walk in not screaming and yelling and calling the king names, doing particular hand motions in his direction. They walk in and they find Jesus is waiting for them.
So there should be great encouragement to us in our age when we are surrounded by all kinds of pagan forces and ideas and communities and thought patterns. God has not lost control. We may be in a fiery furnace, but Jesus is here with us and when he’s ready he will lead us out. In the meantime, enjoy the ride. Action movies are always the most exciting, right?
Thank you so much. We should transition to recommendations. We had settled on one thing for me to recommend, but I remembered something else that I wanted to recommend, so we’ll save the recipe for next week – spoilers.
My recommendation is a song and an album for the Christmas season. The group is called Over the Rhine. It’s a husband and wife from Ohio and they are really amazing musicians and they have several Christmas albums. One of them is called The Darkest Night of the Year and it’s partially relevant because I just remembered that’s not the one that the track is on that I wanted to recommend, but that’s also a good one. The song I want to recommend is called The Trumpet Child and it’s haunting and beautiful and lovely.
Recommendation: Christmas albumsMy recommendation is next. I first wrote the original article it was for a friend of mine, Bill Heid, and it started with reminders of two characters who stand before the Spanish Inquisition and have to maintain their Protestant faith in the face of certain (as far as they knew) torture and death afterwards. That was one of the first stories that Bill produced. His company is called Heirloom Audio Productions. You can find it online. They do audio productions and stories.
Recommendation: Heirloom Audio ProductionsThey’re borrowing from G.A. Henty, who wrote boys’ adventure stories in the late Victorian era and early 20th century. The first one is Under Drake’s Flag. Two young men end up as prisoners of the Inquisition, and somewhere along the line – I forget how it happens – they meet Francis Drake.
It’s very well done. They use professional musicians, professional score writers, Hollywood actors, or British actors better yet, and there is always this dominant gospel theme very near the surface. It’s implicit in Henty, and Bill Heid has made it explicit in his audio productions, and they’re just great fun for the family. This would make a great Christmas present for the family. Any of them that he’s done would be good.
There are a number of them – Lee in Virginia, Wolf the Saxon, The Reign of Terror for the Temple, Beric the Briton and others, but I’m going to go with Under Drake’s Flag as one of the best and one that relates directly to what we’ve been talking about.
That’s fun. I remember listening to The Cat of Bubastes when I was a kid. We had the one on tape from the library, and the way the reader always said it was, “The cat of Bubastes,” which is a very sing-song way of saying the title. It’s forever engraved in my memory.
Thank you so much for this conversation. It’s been a pleasure. Thanks also to David, our producer and my lawfully-wedded husband. Thank you to our financial supporters. We appreciate you keeping the show rolling. If you’d like to join their number you can visit our website, anchor.fm/haltingtowardzion, or you can visit our Patreon, patreon.com/haltingtowardzion. If you’d like to get in touch with us you can send us an email at [email protected].
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